A Fresh Look at Grappling: What's Missing in ANTOG?

A Fresh Look at Grappling: What's Missing in ANTOG?

Grappling in GURPS is beautiful. While some other systems may struggle with grappling, GURPS comes not with one, but with four different grappling systems, and each one of them is good. The systems are the following:

1. The default grappling system that was introduced in GURPS Basic Set and expanded in GURPS Martial Arts and a few other books. (I'll title it "Default" as a shorthand).

2. GURPS Technical Grappling that transforms the binary "grappled/non-grappled" state into a new resource track of Control Points that can be accumulated and spent to negate penalties and accrue bonuses. It is very detailed and if you're using it, make sure you have the latest version of the book, because the changes between 1.0 and 1.2 are significant. While the system may seem complicated, the most fiddly part is that you have to recalculate your effective ST depending on how many Control Points are applied to you. Aside from that, it's not as unplayably complex as memes might make you believe. (I'll use TG as a shorthand).

3. Fantastic Dungeon Grappling, colloquially known as FDG. This is a streamlined version of TG for DFRPG that takes the core (Control Points) and streamlines everything down to four pages.

4. A New Take on Grappling from Pyramid #3-34 (ANTOG) - something not everyone is aware of, but something that everyone should be aware of. Essentially, this article reworks the Default grappling system and streamlines it, fixes some "bugs", and expands it with some new stuff. The gist of it is that now instead of a flat -4 DX penalty or a variable penalty that depends on Control Points, every action performed during a grapple is a Quick Contest between the grappler and the grapplee, which is very GURPS. It may take some time getting used to it, however.

I've played full games with the first three systems, and tested out ANTOG in an arena environment. Lately, I've been using FDG a lot, thinking that it's the best option, but... the more I used it, the more dissatisfied I became. Due to the extreme streamlining, a lot is left up to the GM, and while people online will scream at you that it's the job of the GM to make rulings on the fly and that the book covers everything except the edge cases, these edge cases happen all the goddamn time. It's frustrating. However, what's even more frustrating is that each of the four systems has some things that none of the other systems can do, so there is no "ultimate" grappling system that can do everything.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, but it seems that ANTOG is the best one out of four. However, it suffers from the same thing FDG does - low page count didn't allow the author to cover everything. Thus, I will go through everything all four GURPS grappling systems can do and compile a list of what ANTOG can and cannot do just to see what is missing and what has to be done in the future to turn it into an "ultimate" grappling system.

I'll mark things that ANTOG cannot do in red. Also, there probably will be many cases where ANTOG doesn't explicitly say that some rule from the default grappling system applies or the rules should work without any changes. Such things will be marked in blue.

GURPS Basic Set

1. Grabbing (p. B370), as in grabbing an opponent's weapon or other held item. ANTOG actually cannot do that. By the way, disarming via grabbing is a Regular Contest of ST, not a Quick Contest.

2. Grappling (p. B370). This has to be split into sub-points.

    2.1. Initiating a grapple.

    2.2. Using multiple hands to grapple. (ANTOG does this even better, allowing other limbs and occupied hands).

    2.3. You cannot make unarmed parries unless you let go. This actually isn't said in ANTOG, but it's probably implied.

    2.4. If you grapple a foe of more than twice your ST, you do not prevent him from moving away – you’re just extra encumbrance for him! There is no such thing in ANTOG, but there probably should be something about a situation when the difference in values in a Grappling Contest is high enough that you shouldn't bother rolling.

    2.5. Posture and grappling. The required posture to grapple a prone opponent is not listed. However, the guidelines from GURPS Basic Set are sensible (even though they could be expanded with regards to leg/knee grapples, binds, long arms, etc.)

    2.6. Grappling and hit location. Interestingly enough, ANTOG rounds hit location penalties incorrectly here. Neck and head should be -3, not -2.

3. Takedown (p. B370)

4. Pin (p. B370).

5. Choke (p. B371).

6. Strangle (p. B371).

7. Arm Lock (p. B371).

8. Neck Snap or Wrench Limb (p. B371).

9. Other Actions (p. B371). ANTOG doesn't specify, but I assume that the same limitations apply. I have to note that TG allows a penalized Concentration during a grapple.

    9.1. Drag or carry your victim. In ANTOG, you can only Step. Proper movement with a grappled foe is only covered in FDG, afaik.

10. Pounce. Eggplant, what are you even talking about here? DFRPG Exploits, p. 40 expands it, saying that after a successful pounce, you can claim a free grapple, which is actually a huge change. The book doesn't have flying tackle as an option, so I don't know if it should work identically. Probably not.

11. Cloaks (p. B404).

12. Garrotes (p. B405).

13. Picks (p. B405) - there is nothing about using a stuck pick for grappling purposes in the Basic Set, but this is covered in FDG and TG, so I will preemtively mark it down as something ANTOG doesn't do and come back to it later.

14. Binding (p. B40).

15. Telekinesis (p. B92).

16. Knockback. Now that I think about it, what happens if a grappled creature gets knocked back? I don't think any of the systems cover this.

17. Catfall (p. B41). Throws in ANTOG work like falls, so Catfall probably should work against them, if the thrower lets go of the grapple. Otherwise, the throwee is too restrained to use Catfall. People often say that Catfall is overpriced, and this is a very nice bonus.

18. Constriction Attack (p. B43).

19. Extra Arm (p. B53). While ANTOG does cover multiarmed grapples, it doesn't say anything about arms of different lengths, extra-flexible arms (this is covered in MA), arms of different ST, and foot manipulators. This is going to be messy.

20. Extra Legs (p. B54) - ANTOG actually does make Extra Legs matter for the purpose of takedowns, which is something the other systems don't do (or they do, and I'm just blind or have forgotten about it; if I find something about this later, I'll make sure to mention it).

21. Flexibility/Double-Jointed (p. B56). I assume this works the same in ANTOG. This will be expanded in Martial Arts.

22. Flight (p. B56). ANTOG doesn't list wing-related techniques, but those should be easy to do. As for the mess that is aerial grappling, we'll get there once we reach Pyramid and FDG.

23. Injury Tolerance (Diffuse) (p. B60). This is a huge mess, but I sort of solved it already in another post.

24. Slippery (p. B85) - yet again, this probably works the same way.

25. Striker (p. B88). There are no Stiker-based techniques, but they should be easy to introduce. "But Eggplant, Strikers cannot be damaged, they work like wea-" RTFM.

26. Sanitized Metabolism (p. B101). How is this even related to grappling? It actually is. In ANTOG, you get a bonus to rolls made to break free, if you're sweaty, and this perk removes excessive perspiration. So, this perk should have a downside now.

27. Bad Grip (p. B123). This disadvantage gives -2 per level to tasks that require a firm grip. For some reason, grappling isn't explicitly mentioned here, but it is in GURPS Martial Arts. (By the way, did you know that Bad Grip doesn't do anything for grappling in TG/FDG? There's even a monster with Bad Grip 2 in Nordlondr Ovinabokin whose grappling skill and damage are completely unaffected by it.)

    I already discussed this problem with multiple people and came to the conclusion that Bad Grip only works in ANTOG, and doesn't really work in other grappling systems.

28. Invertebrate (p. B140). The effect of this disadvantage on grappling is not listed anywhere to my knowledge, but shouldn't there be? I think it shold penalize certain techniques.

29. Missing Digit (p. B144). How do arms with different DX work in a grapple?

30. Weak Bite (p. B160). While grappling with teeth is described in GURPS Martial Arts, there is no interaction with this disadvantage. Note to self: Don't forget about Missing Teeth.

GURPS Martial Arts

1. Striker (p. MA47 / MA117). It probably should be explicitly stated that Strikers with the Limb modifier are affected by limb-based techniques, not Striker-based techniques.

2. Cotton Stomach (p. MA50).

3. Ground Guard (p. MA50) - this perk has been reworked in ANTOG.

4. Neck Control (p. MA50).

5. Power Grappling (p. MA51) - this perk is obsolete in ANTOG.

6. Rapid Retraction (p. MA51) - this perk has been reworked in ANTOG.

7. Knot-Tying to tie up a victim entangled with a whip or lariat (p. MA58) - this probably should be reworked into a Grappling Contest, like everything in ANTOG.

8. Using Push instead of ST for sweeps and similar techniques (p. MA59) - since immediate techniques are a thing in ANTOG, this may need to be included.

9. Arm or Wrist Lock (p. MA65).

10. Armed Grapple (p. MA67).

11. Bind Weapon (p. MA67).

12. Breakfall (p. MA68).

13. Choke Hold (p. MA69).

14. Entangle (p. MA71).

15. Eye-Gouging (p. MA71).

16. Finger Lock (p. MA73).

17. Handcuffing (p. MA73).

18. Head Lock (p. MA74).

19. Hook (p. MA74).

20. Judo Throw (p. MA75).

21. Leg Grapple (p. MA76) - is this a more specific version of Grabbing Parry in ANTOG?

22. Leg Lock (p. MA76).

23. Neck Snap (p. MA77).

24. Retain Weapon (p. MA78).

25. Sacrific Throw (p. MA78) - this is subsumed into takedowns in ANTOG.

26. Using Your Legs (p. MA79).

27. Scissors Hold (p. MA79) - while this technique has some unique bits, it is already possible in ANTOG.

28. Sweep (p. MA81) - this is something like Takedown as an immediate technique.

29. Wrenh (Limb) (p. MA82).

30. Wrench Spine (p. MA82).

31. Backbreaker (p. MA82).

32. Binding (p. MA82).

33. Hand Catch (p. MA83) - realistic uses are covered by Grabbing Parry.

34. Piledriver (p. MA85).

35. All-Out and Committed Attacks When Grappling (p. MA114) - ANTOG, in my opinion, does it better, allowing grappling defenses at -4 after an All-Out Attack. It also covers Defensive Attacks.

36. Extra Arms in Grappling (p. MA114) - this is where things as Extra-Flexible Arms and Foot Manipulators are explained. Should be compatible.

37. Extra Legs in Grappling (p. MA114).

38. Horizontal (p. MA115) - only a couple of things there are grappling-related, but they should work fine without any changes.

39. Injury Tolerance (p. MA115) - as I mentioned above, Diffuse creatures being immune to grappling is a complicated topic that I explored in detail in another post.

40. Teeth (p. MA115) - it probably should be noted that Born Biter should only increase your effective SM for what you can and cannot grapple, and the "handedness" of your grapple, and it shouldn't affect the overall SM for the purpose of the Grappling Contest. On the other hand, teeth grapples are a thing in ANTOG, but nothing is said about them being treated as one- or two-handed.

41. Lame (p. MA116).

42. No Fine Manipulators (p. MA116). While these rules should work in ANTOG, the interaction between NFM and Bad Grip must be taken into account. No Fine Manipulators is considered a more advanced version of Bad Grip as the two are incompatible. However, if Bad Grip gives a penalty to grappling, why does NFM is unpenalized? Something isn't right here.

43. Grappling Using the Torso (p. MA116).

44. The Sound of One Hand Grappling / One Arm / One Hand (p. MA116).

45. No Legs (p. MA116).

46. Spines (p. MA116).

47. Bear Hugs (p. MA117).

48. Shifting Grapples and Freeing Hands (p. MA117).

49. Grab and Smash! (p. MA117) - for the most part, this works, but I think that things like pulling somebody onto a knife shouldn't require an All-Out Attack (Double). Perhaps, it'd be possible to make this option more generic, a la FDG.

50. Shoving People Around (p. MA118) - while this is covered in ANTOG, I would love to have it expanded with FDG stuff, but we'll come back to it once we reach FDG.

51. Throws from Locks (p. MA118).

52. Pain in Close Combat (p. MA119).

53. Sprawling (p. MA119).

GURPS Martial Arts: Fairbairn Close Combat Systems

1. Testicle Grab (p. 14) - of course, you need the option to grapple deez nuts.

GURPS Martial Arts: Yrth Fighting Styles

1. Rake (p. 28) - this is only tangentially grappling-related, but an option that you should remember.

2. Shapeshifting in Combat (p. 26) - the part with breaking free from a grapple should work.

GURPS Powers

1. Constriction Attack, Engulfing (p. P45) - while the regular Constriction Attack is covered in ANTOG, one with Engulfing is not.

2. Independent Body Parts (p. P52) - some parts have to be adjusted (what is their SM?) for the purpose of grappling.

GURPS Furries

1. Good Grip (p. 13) - just like Bad Grip, this should be explained more clearly.

2. Clawed Grapple (p. 17) - this is an extremely important technique that few players/GMs even know about. For the most part, it works as is, but some additional things have to be accounted for. I know a person who has a write-up for this.

3. Leg Loop (p. 17) - this is something of a Scissors Hold variant.

GURPS Zombies

1. If one tries and fails to grapple head or neck of a zombie to restrain it from biting, the zombie can bite the hand on the next turn without the usual -4 to hit (p. 109) - I believe that this rule can be made more generic - it shouldn't be restricted to zombies, and hands. After all, you can grapple with other body parts too.

GURPS Martial Arts: Technical Grappling

1. Spending Control Points (p. 5) - "But Eggplant, ANTOG doesn't have Control Points!" True. But don't Setups Bonuses serve the same purpose?

2. Referred Control (p. 5) - this frequently maligned mechanic exists in ANTOG in a simpler form of location-based technique penalties.

3. Sensitive Locations (p. 5) - grappling the ear and it giving a bonus to Control Posture sounds cool.

4. Sweat, Clothing, and Armor (p. 5) - this is partially covered in ANTOG. You do get penalties for the target being naked, sweaty, or oiled up. However, you do not get the inverse of that for grappling reinforced collars and other good handles (like the guige that will come up later). Also, TG doesn't say when you count as sweaty, while ANTOG does, but what ANTOG says (lost at least 1 FP) is quick, but not really correct, if you're going for realism. Not everyone can sweat, and not every loss of FP will cause sweating. I'd say that one should replace "lost at least 1 FP" with "lost at leat 1 FP to physical exertion or heat." This is just pedantry, but it should protect you from a player going "Nuh-uh, my aardvark-man lost 1 FP to extreme cold, he should get a bonus for sweating". The bit about damaging clothing is cool too.

5. Damaging Armor (p. 6) - neat stuff.

6. Weight and Grappling (p. 8) - Oh, boy, this is going to be difficult. While ANTOG does partially cover this by allowing substituting HP for ST for certain maneuvers, this doesn't account for encumbrance. I'm pretty sure that these rules can be greatly streamlined and simplified to be more usable.

7. Stability (p. 10).

8. Relative Facing (p. 11).

9. Grabbing Weapons, Shields, and Objects (pp. 12-14) - This entire part should be ported over. There are some nice tricks in there. Shield grabbing will be expanded further in Shields Up!

10. Weapons (pp. 14-17) - I'm not even going to list things point-by-point, but armed grappling is rather rudimentary in ANTOG, and adapting this section would expand it greatly. I already know a guy with write-ups for some of these parts.

11. One Foe (p. 22) - I bet you didn't know about this generic maneuver option. It needs some very slight adjustments to work in ANTOG.

12. Hands-Free Parries (p. 22) - I think this should work as-is or with minimal adjustments.

13. Disallowed Maneuvers (p. 23) - TG is more lenient with disallowed maneuvers than GURPS Basic Set, allowing some heavily penalized Aim, Concentrate, and Ranged Attacks. I'm not sure how to implement it, but I will think about it.

14. Pickup (p. 24).

15. Sit on Him (p. 25) - limbless pinning is allowed in ANTOG.

16. Extra-Flexible Legs (p. 27) - this should work.

17. Prehensile Feet (p. 28) - this requires a bit of adjustment.

18. Perfect Balance (p. 29) (and Excellent Balance by extension, I'm not going to list it separately) - I believe that this is the first place where Perfect Balance is said to affect Sweeps and similar moves. May require tiny adjustments.

19. Stretching (p. 29).

20. Bad Back (p. 30).

21. Choke (p. 36) - I don't think ANTOG has carotid choke and painful tracheal choke.

22. Sprawling Parry (p. 40) - this is very cool.

23. Secret Lock (p. 42).

24. Snap Weapon (p. 42).

Pyramid #3-14 ("Fight While In Flight")

1. Aerial Sweep (p. 20).

2. Aerial Throw (p. 20).

Pyramid #3-26 ("GURPS Fathom Five")

1. Limitations on grappling maneuvers underwater (p. 7).

Pyramid #3-61 ("Coming to Grips with Realism")

1. Harsh Realism for Entangling Weapons (p. 34) - makes sense, shouldn't be difficult to implement.

Pyramid #3-65 ("Natural Weapons")

1. Natural Weapons (pp. 24-26) - since we're doing Strikers, we shouldn't forget about Natural Weapons. Certain Natural Weapons should allow grappling despite NFM (like Claws do in TG), and some Natural Weapons should be grappleable and allow follow-up moves. For example, Neck Snap when grabbing a bull by its horns.

Pyramid #3-85 ("Free Falling")

1. Using grappling skill to regain control (p. 26).

2. Judo Throw, Sacrificial Throw, Sweep in Zero-G (p. 30).

Pyramid #3-100 ("Realistic Injury, Expanded")

1. Missing Teeth (p. 32) - see, I didn't forget about it. It should penalize your bite grapples, shouldn't it?

Pyramid #3-111 ("Animal Combat Styles")

1. Sweep and Trip Underwater (p. 26).

2. Deadly Pounce (p. 28) - this is how pounces work in DFRPG by default, so I'd rather deprecate this technique.

3. Swooping Attack (p. 29) - a variant of Pickup from TG (FDG also has something like that).

Pyramid #3-XX ("???")

1. There was something like a Frog March technique in one of the issues, but I cannot find it. In any case, the thing also exists in FDG, so it's not a big deal.

Fantastic Dungeon Grappling

1. Weapon/Shield Bind (p. 3) - this is something only FDG can do. I already know a guy who adapted binds to ANTOG.

2. Airborne (p. 3) - while this isn't directly related to grappling, this is important when things like Pickup and Swooping Attack exist.

3. Frog March (p. 4) - while Control Step exists in ANTOG, this book has some extra bits about multiple creatures trying to prevent you from moving. This probably will be subsumed into the generic multiple-combatant grappling rules.

4. Grab and Go (p. 5) - this is what the aforementioned unfound Pyramid technique does.

5. Human Shield (p. 8).

Shields Up!

1. Guiges and Shield Binds (p. 4).

2. Shield Bind Reach (p. 9).

3. Binding Block (p. 10) and Blade-Trapping Boss (p. 21).

4. Blade Trap (p. 10).

5. A Fist Full of Shield (p. 13).

6. Convenient Carry Handle (p. 13).

7. Hook It (p. 14).

8. Stab It (p. 14).

9. Disarm and Shield Grip Type (p. 14).

Serpents of Legend

1. Swallow Whole (p. 5) - while this appeared in FDG first, this book has slightly updated wording. The rules seem quite generous, but there is a fan-made alternative on another blog.